Useless Multiplexes

[Jonny A46]

The A440 used to run between Pershore and Great Malvern, along what is now the A4104 and B4211. The A492 is free, too - it ran between Llangurig and Caersws via Llanidloes, before it got swallowed up by the A470, so those two are free as well.

If, in the 1922 listings, the A5 had been routed through Coventry, Birmingham and Wolverhampton on Thomas Telford's Holyhead Road (as opposed to Watling Street), then an A5x number would have been entirely appropriate for the road between Birmingham and Manchester. This wouldn't make sense nowadays though.

[Owain]

If, in the 1922 listings, the A5 had been routed through Coventry, Birmingham and Wolverhampton on Thomas Telford's Holyhead Road (as opposed to Watling Street), then an A5x number would have been entirely appropriate for the road between Birmingham and Manchester. This wouldn't make sense nowadays though.

Didn't the A51 originally start in Coventry, and therefore a good way south of the Watling Street A5?

[Jonny A46]

No, it didn't. In the original 1922 listings, the A51 ran from Tamworth (on the A5) to Birkenhead (Chester-Birkenhead on the modern A41). South of Tamworth, the road to Coventry, and onto Banbury and Oxford, was the A423. The furthest south the A51 got was Nether Whitacre on the A47 in the 1970s, which did take it out of zone. It was cut back to Kingsbury when the M6/M42 were completed and the A47 became a B road.

[Owain]

Oh well. I thought I'd seen it run to Coventry in a pre-war road atlas, but maybe not!

[DavidBrown]

Also, what would you have the A361 between Barnstaple and Ilfracombe as?

I think that used to be part of the A399.

No - it used to be the A373, but that still exists down between Cullompton and Honiton.

[Stevie D]

The main problem is that people still can't get their heads around the A39 and A361 swapping numbers in Barnstaple when the bypass opened in 2007 - changing the numbers for two substantial stretches of road would be a logistical nightmare, and in the end have no benefit whatsoever.

The A361 is a complete basket case of a road.

From Ilfracombe to Barnstaple, it is a reasonable bog-standard A road.
From Barnstaple to the M5, it is a high-quality long-distance road.
It then disappears into the shadows of the A38 for 20 miles before reappearing at a point with no access to the motorway.
From there it continues as a bog standard A road to Ashcott, where it hides behind the A39 for a few miles.
It then runs across country as a mediocre primary route with lots of TOTSOs for a while, then turns red again through Devizes and on towards Avebury.
Then it suddenly stops, with the route of the A361 disguised as the A4361 to Swindon.
15 miles later, it reappears on the other side of Swindon, and continues north as a regular A road to Kilsby, near Rugby, some time later.

It's a very confused road that doesn't know what it is doing.

I would change it so that:

A39: runs from Barnstaple to M5 J27, then multiplexes with M5 to J23, then as now.
A361: Barnstaple - Lynton - Bridgwater -<multiplex with A39>- Glastonbury - Swindon
A4xx: Swindon - Kilsby.

Also, what would you have the A361 between Barnstaple and Ilfracombe as?

A377 would seem to fit the bill nicely. You could extend A399, but that turns it into a big horsehoe, which can confuse tourists.

[Owain]

I think I must have converted the A361/A399 Ilfracombe coast road into an entire A399 horseshoe in my brain some time ago, and convinced myself that it was real. The same goes for my mistaken A51 reference above.

Anyway, I can't believe that when they renumbered the M5-Barnstaple route they chose A361 over A39. When it comes to A361 'basket case', someone somewhere has been having a laugh for a long time (almost since 1922, in fact)!

[SouthWest Philip]

The A361 is a complete basket case of a road...
It's a very confused road that doesn't know what it is doing.

I would change it so that:

A39: runs from Barnstaple to M5 J27, then multiplexes with M5 to J23, then as now.
A361: Barnstaple - Lynton - Bridgwater -<multiplex with A39>- Glastonbury - Swindon
A4xx: Swindon - Kilsby.

I think there should have been a more comprehensive review of road classifciations in the area when the NDLR was extended past Tiverton in late 1998. And what I would have done if I'd been reasponsible is...

* A39 Bath - M5 jnc 23; M5 jnc 27 - Barnstaple - Falmouth (as suggested above).
* A361 Ilfracombe - Barnstaple becomes A386.
* B3232 Barnstaple - Torrington becomes A386. (Needs a little bit of money spent on it but it's no worse than the A386 further south.)
* A386 Appledore - Torrington & A3124 Torrington to Whiddon Down become A382.
* A39 Bridgwater - Minehead becomes A397. (Renumber mile long road near Portsmouth!)
* A39 Minehead to Barbrook (B3234 jnc west of Lynton) becomes B3228.
* A39 Barbrook to Barnstaple becomes A398.
* B3224/B3223/B3358 Wheddon Cross to A399 near Blackmoor Gate becomes A3xxx.
* A3123 Kentisbury to Mullacott Cross becomes A399.
* A399 Kentisbury to Ilfracombe becomes B3229.

[Chris Bertram]

... 15 miles later, it reappears on the other side of Swindon, and continues north as a regular A road to Kilsby, near Rugby, some time later.

It's a very confused road that doesn't know what it is doing.

I believe this is the most recent extension to the route, albeit a 1970's addition. What the strategic value to it is I don't know, particularly since the Swindon severance was implemented. A434 or A440 would now be better than a 3-zone number, assuming a 3-digit number is warranted, and I'm not convinced about that.

[DavidBrown]

* A3123 Kentisbury to Mullacott Cross becomes A399.
* A399 Kentisbury to Ilfracombe becomes B3229.

I'd certaintly go along with that, and one day it might just become a reality if Ilfracombe High Street is pedestrianised or restricted. There's various other changes I'd have with the B3230, but we're becoming a bit too off-topic now...

[Jonny A46]

The reason why the NDLR became the A361 was because because the road from Barnstaple to Taunton already had this number. The road used to run along the B3227 from South Molton (it's twisty though), so effectively it was rerouted with a multiplex with the M5. This was originally the A398. In the 1922 listings, the A361 started at Taunton and ended at Banbury, and the A39 ended on it, halfwayish between Glastonbury and Bridgwater. The A39 has always run along the rather substandard (for a F99) road between Bridgwater and Barnstaple.

[Owain]

Come to think of it, if the A303 is so hallowed that we give it priority over A30 at the eastern end and dare not renumber it, why not also give it priority over the A30 at the western end by creating a 'pointless multiplex' all the way down to Exeter? Whatever number it has, surely it would be more logical to give the continuous primary route from M3 at Popham to M5 at Exeter the same number throughout? ...especially as Exeter even appears on at least one signpost, without brackets, in the Andover area?

[Sean Nelson]

in St Helens, the B5203 multiplexes with the A580 for a short time.

[sgill77]

in St Helens, the B5203 multiplexes with the A580 for a short time.

Sean, if you've read through the rest of this thread, you should have seen that the topic is a very specific kind of multiplex - namely, one where there seems to be no point in one of the roads being a multiplex because they end at the end of the multiplex.

The junction that you refer too is a simple staggered junction where the B5203 meets the A580, travels along it for a very short while, and then leaves it at the other side. There must be hundreds of multiplexes just like this all over the UK. It certainly wasn't worth dragging up a two-week old thread just to add it - it's not even on-topic!

Please, please think before you hit "submit" on the reply screen. If you're not commenting on something someone else has written, and you're not adding anything to the information in the thread, then it's sometimes best not to bother.

Steve
Site Manager

[Jimbo]

Whilst researching an update for the A38 Wiki page, I found a double useless multiplex in the centre of Bristol, but unfortunately, it no longer exists.

When the A4044 inner ring road was extended around the south of the city and across Queen square, the A4 and A38 multiplex with it, but both roads then carry on. Going clockwise around the ring road from the eastern side, the A4 comes in at Temple Gate and then the A38 comes in at Redcliff Hill, both multiplexing with the A40444 across Queen Square upto St.Augustines Parade. Here the A4 shoots off to Avonmouth and the A38 carries on as the ring road. The Queen Square section should probably have been the A4, but it could equally have been the A38, both roads multiplexing with each other. The use of the A4044 classification is superfluous and creates a useless multiplex with both the A4 and A38.

In 1999, the Queen Square section was removed to restore the square to its former glory, which means that now the A4 presumably goes anti-clockwise around the ring road, multiplexing with the A4044 and then the A38. The A38 itself has no direct link between its two ends so has to be counted as discontinuous.

Today, the A4044 is probably superfluous as apart from the Redcliff Way section, the whole ring road could be made the A4 rather than having the multiplex. Redcliff Way could be made the A38, which could then multiplex with the A4 around to St.James Barton.

Jim.

[multiraider2]

The A22 and A2022 form a useless multiplex for a short while from Downs Court Road to Purley Cross. The A2022 continues along Foxley Lane after the junction. If the A22 had taken the A23 route to Central London as originally, it wouldn't now be a useless multiplex.

Of course as the A2022 turns off up a fairly minor Downs Court Road, it would make no sense to make the short section the A2022 only.