Level crossing question

[SouthWest Philip]

Something I was pondering whilst waiting at the Swindon Road level crossing in Cheltenham today...

Level crossings used to, quite sensibly, have yellow box junction markings and older copies of the Highway Code used to show this.

Now they don't have box junction markings. Why not? Why and when did things change? It seems logical enough to unambiguously prohibit stopping on the crossing.

[Berk]

Sloppy maintenance?? Also, IME it tends to be the smaller, AHB-type crossings. Full barrier crossings don’t usually have them.

[AndyB]

Box markings on level crossings are risk assessed according to the likelihood of traffic blocking back. I stand to be corrected, but I think that while they are provided at most automatic half-barrier crossings, they're only provided at selected full barrier crossings.

[Berk]

The Lolham crossing at King Street doesn’t have any box markings, even though it really should have done.

It’s one-way now, so you shouldn’t see any oncoming cars (like in that view). In theory, at least.

[Fenlander]

I keep seeing people say that’s one way now but the times I’ve been through the signage has said no entry at one end but nothing to suggest it’s one way. As I understand it you can go down from the Maxey end, access the streams or properties and come back out the same way.
Or has extra signage been put in place since I last went through a few months ago?

[KeithW]

Something I was pondering whilst waiting at the Swindon Road level crossing in Cheltenham today...

Level crossings used to, quite sensibly, have yellow box junction markings and older copies of the Highway Code used to show this.

Now they don't have box junction markings. Why not? Why and when did things change? It seems logical enough to unambiguously prohibit stopping on the crossing.

It seems equally logical not to drive onto a crossing if your exit is not clear - for me self preservation trumps traffic law.

That said some crossings are now monitored by CCTV and if the crossing is blocked the train can be slowed down or stopped. The problem with this for the motorist is that the crossing closure time is considerably increased as compared with unmonitored crossings. You can see this monitoring at the crossing on Tempsford Road. Because this is a high speed 4 track line delays can last several minutes as express trains can be covering 2 miles every minute.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.15744 ... 6656?hl=en

Similarly local to me there is CCTV at the Nunthorpe crossing
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.52771 ... 8192?hl=en

At Gypsy Lane they closed the road to vehicular traffic although emergency vehicles can unlock the barriers provided they contact the control room.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.53303 ... 6656?hl=en


Those that are not remotely monitored by and large still do have a box markings as at Foxton for example.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.11900 ... 6656?hl=en

Of course none of this helps if some numpty crashes through the barrier which happened at Foxton when a tanker driver smashed through the gates.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews ... riers.html

Network Rail have a long term policy of closing level crossings and by forward proposals to close the Tempsford and the Foxton crossings to be replaced with a flyover but nobody wanted to pay for it although I understand there are plans to revisit this decision for Foxton.
http://www.foxtoncambs.info/documents/R ... _Part1.pdf

[KeithW]

The Lolham crossing at King Street doesn’t have any box markings, even though it really should have done.

It’s one-way now, so you shouldn’t see any oncoming cars (like in that view). In theory, at least.

It does however have CCTV so signallers can monitor the crossing.
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.6490859 ... 312!8i6656

[Helvellyn]

Sloppy maintenance?? Also, IME it tends to be the smaller, AHB-type crossings. Full barrier crossings don’t usually have them.

Nearest one to me is a manual full barrier crossing, with box markings.

As others have suggested they really shouldn't be needed any more than signs telling you not to drive off a cliff.

[Berk]

I keep seeing people say that’s one way now but the times I’ve been through the signage has said no entry at one end but nothing to suggest it’s one way. As I understand it you can go down from the Maxey end, access the streams or properties and come back out the same way.
Or has extra signage been put in place since I last went through a few months ago?

No, it hasn’t. I think the thing to remember is, it’s only one-way for private cars/vans/lorries.

Cyclists/peds/emergency services can still use it both ways. That may be why no one-way signs have been put up. The signs haven’t changed anyway.

It does however have CCTV so signallers can monitor the crossing.
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.6490859 ... 312!8i6656

That too.

[Al__S]

with a full barrier crossing, be they locally controlled, monitored by CCTV or the less-reliable LIDAR Object Detection variety, the protecting signal on the railway should not be cleared (set to an aspect other than red) unless the signaller (or LIDAR) has confirmed that all barriers are down and the crossing is clear.

As such, a yellow box is only really needed if there's a persistent risk of queuing traffic- eg a nearby junction. And it performs a different role to standard crossing traffic enforcement cameras, which are there to catch those gunning for it when the lights come on before the barriers start to lower. If the crossing is not near something else that causes queues, then there's no need for the yellow paint.

[Berk]

There was often queueing traffic at the Lolham crossing. Mainly due to drivers being too polite, and disobeying the priority signs (giving way when it was their priority).

That really makes you ask why, when the signs were perfectly clear. Were they ignoring them out of politeness, or did they feel the design of the bridge meant they had a natural give way point??

You also had some halfwits forcing their way through just after the lights had turned red. Hence the one-way for cars.

[SouthWest Philip]

Interesting responses, thank you. Unless I am mistaken, I was convinced that box junction markings at level crossings did used to be far more common (standard?) than they are now. Was there an official change of guidance at some point?

I agree with those who say that shouldn't be necessary anyway, yet I am always amazed at the number who do just blindly enter a crossing without waiting for the vehicle in front to clear. Why chance it for a second of two's hesitation?

[Berk]

You say two seconds... if only. The Lolham crossing (and the neighbouring ones) can be closed for 20 minutes at a time. There are 300 trains per day - it’s hardly surprising some people will risk it.

And even less so when you know when it is still safe to cross, but you see drivers in front (supermarket vans, for instance) pull up and stop before the lights have turned red. A bit like when people slow for a green light, because they think it’ll turn red in a moment.

And there are not many options to avoid the crossing either.

[AndyB]

Manual crossings and LIDAR crossings are 3 seconds amber, 20-odd seconds barriers lowering, then the signalman has to carry out a visual check for manual crossings (including CCTV) and LIDAR has to do a sweep before the crossing can be verified as clear and the protecting signals clear. For a single train to pass under green signals can mean several minutes with the barriers down, but as well as sites with too much traffic for an automatic crossing (closure time usually less than a minute), sites where drivers are numpties or block the crossings force the introduction of CCTV/LIDAR crossings with the added inconvenience to those who play by the rules.

[NottsLad]

Nearest one to me is a manual full barrier crossing, with box markings.

As others have suggested they really shouldn't be needed any more than signs telling you not to drive off a cliff.

True, but applying the same logic barriers shouldn't be needed either, we don't have them at road intersections.

[KeithW]

Nearest one to me is a manual full barrier crossing, with box markings.

As others have suggested they really shouldn't be needed any more than signs telling you not to drive off a cliff.

True, but applying the same logic barriers shouldn't be needed either, we don't have them at road intersections.

And for a long time we had ungated and half barrier crossings but people kept getting killed on them. Much worse is that if a train doing 125 mph hits a car on the crossing you can have a disaster on your hands. The example below was not on a crossing but was caused by a freight train and an Intercity 225 train hitting a Landrover on the track. 10 people died and 82 were seriously injured. The driver of the Landie had fallen asleep at the wheel on the M62 and went down the embankment onto the track. He got 5 years in prison for this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Heck_rail_crash

This is why remaining public crossings on the ECML have full barriers, CCTV and Lidar, partly to protect road users but mainly to protect railway passengers and crew .

As for road intersections there are good reasons why there are no traffic light controlled flat crossings on motorways and the speed limit reduces on the approaches to such crossings on all purpose roads.

[The Devil's Armpit]

Some rural Auto Half Barriers have no CCTV , the barriers come down when tripped by the oncoming train regardless of any errant cars, lorries or tractors on the crossing.

Therefore the yellow boxes are still required for the occasional Darwin Award entrant.

[KeithW]

There are a few uncontrolled crossings still around, mostly on private roads and farm accesses. The crossing near me at Gypsy Lane was one such until the late 60's when they built houses along it. Even as a boy I had a good sense of self preservation and always got off my bike and had a good look before using it. The half barrier crossing at Lade Fort on the Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch small gauge railway was uncontrolled when I lived there in the 80's but after a collision which fortunately produced no fatalities but did total the car and put the driver in hospital had the half barriers and lights added but on Dungeness point there are still some uncontrolled crossings.

Amazingly on the ECML there is or was until very recently a set of manually operated crossing gates on a minor road just south of Biggleswade.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.06917 ... 6656?hl=en

To be fair the road on the other side of the crossing is a private road which I believe was built when the Wind Farm was installed,

[lefthandedspanner]

There's a very large and visually obvious box junction where a tram line crosses a road at-grade here, but you still get any amount of idiotic drivers stopping on the tracks and blocking the tramway.

[Big L]

...Amazingly on the ECML there is or was until very recently a set of manually operated crossing gates on a minor road just south of Biggleswade.
Link

To be fair the road on the other side of the crossing is a private road which I believe was built when the Wind Farm was installed,

Also ECML, but maybe a bit quieter here.